Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: WVUA FM, Tuscaloosa.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Hello, everybody.
This is WVUA 90.7 FM, the Capstone. And welcome to episode 58 of the full court press podcast. My name is Jamie Martinez and I'm joined by Nick Atkinson and Kaden Johnson in to stay up to date. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at FCP podcast underscore UA with that being said, let's get into it. A hefty amount of news this week. Whole lot happening around the NBA, not just scoring wise. It's really everywhere. So last week we recorded our episode on a Tuesday, legitimately, as soon as we finished recording, Doc Rivers was officially hired to be the head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. Where a weekend. I believe he's coached one game already.
I don't think he's in two yet, but he has coached one game.
Either of you guys, how are we feeling about Doc Rivers so far? He had a pretty popular quote that came out that said he wouldn't wish this upon his worst enemy. So how are we feeling about it?
[00:01:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know how I'm feeling about that quote, especially if I'm like the Bucks front office. That's not really the quote I want to hear.
Also, he took the job. I don't understand the point of view where he tries to make it out to be like a burden. I get how it would be hard because you're kind of coming in in the middle of the season and learning what's working for the team, what's not working, their chemistry, stuff like that. I get how that would be challenging. But you took the job. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, not necessarily a burden because it's preventable. You could prevent it by staying.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: He had that broadcasting job with Mike Breen, so it's not like he was doing nothing, sitting on his couch and he was desperate for a hire. He had a solidified job and he didn't have to take this head coaching job. It was his choice to do that.
[00:01:54] Speaker C: I just love the dramaticism. I wouldn't wish this on anybody.
It's just the worst thing ever.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, doc Rivers, he's a very interesting quote. Moving on to some injury news, per Adrian Wojzanrowski, Julius Randall dislocated his shoulder and is expected to be out weeks, not months.
So a little unfortunate. It was a very scary injury when it first came out. It was pretty gruesome. He kind of ran right back to that locker room in a lot of pain. Nick, how are we feeling about this? Julius Randall News if it's not not, it's not too big of a deal. Yeah, the Knicks are winning games, too, so it's not like it's that big of a deal. Julius Randall, bit of a shotchucker. So there's that. Next up, poor Wojanrowski again. NBA commissioner Adam Silver is finalizing a contract extension that's expected to take him through the end of the decade, sources tell ESPN. That is some pretty big NBA news, I would say for the good side. People really consider Adam Silver to be the best commissioner in sports. And I mean, it's pretty popular. He implemented that in season tournament. It's playing out well. It was pretty popular, so it's a good thing. Kaden, do you have any opinions on Mr. Silver?
[00:03:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I think like you said, you nailed it. He's the best commissioner in professional sports. He's a lot better than what the NFL has going for them. I think Adam Silver is doing a lot of great things for the league. He's actively trying to make the regular season a lot more appealing to the eye for your casual NBA viewers. And I think that's going to continue with years to come, especially with the in season tournament and how it's going to grow. So I think Adam Silver was a great guy to keep on the job. I can't think of anybody else and I think he's better than any of the commissioners in the past as well.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Moving on to some scoring news this past week. Last week we were talking about how unbelievable of a scoring week it was with Joel Embiid, Carl Anthony Towns. Yada, yada, yada. This week it got even crazier. Luca Magic is back. Mavericks guard Luca Donchick goes nuclear versus the Atlanta Hawks. He rocked up 73 points, ten rebounds, seven assists, shooting 25 of 33 from the field. His performance puts him fourth all time in single game scoring. Any of you guys, how are we feeling about that performance?
[00:04:09] Speaker A: What, the 73 point game?
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Luca. Luca specifically. I think he should be the MVP for sure.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Not that crazy to say that.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Well, it's not crazy at all, but it's not going to happen because it gets just a seeding. As of right now, it's probably just not going to happen. But yeah, I think he's the best player in the league.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
He's just a dog. And we all three watched that game together, too. We saw how he was scoring. It wasn't easy. Buckets. And it was like a really efficient 73, too. I want to say what? He took like 33 shots.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Yes, 25 to 33.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it's pretty insane. And I think between episodes, Embiid had his 70 point game as well.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: We talked about that.
[00:04:47] Speaker C: I think we've had 270.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Crazy.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: I don't think we did, though. That's why I was saying, was it.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: After I had it in the notes last week?
[00:04:53] Speaker C: I think. Really?
[00:04:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Yeah, because we recorded the night after Cat had the night.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: But wasn't there like another big Devin Booker?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah, same day.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: And he lost. Yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Every time he scores big, he ends up losing. When he had that 70 pointer back in the day, he lost. So let's just stop Devin Booker from scoring 60 plus. Maybe he'll win a couple of games. Last form of news that came out last night, former Boston Celtics guard Rajan Rondo arrested on drug and gun charges last night. He has been bailed out as of right now. Unbelievable news that completely caught me off guard when I saw the ESPN notification. Kaden, as our resident Celtics fan, now that Alex is gone, how are we feeling about this news?
[00:05:38] Speaker C: It's pretty crazy. You got the best point guard in Kings history.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Probably.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Greatest playmaker that we've seen in the last 30 years.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Who knows how many games they win? If you switched Fox and Rondo, who knows? 60. Yeah, probably 70, but, yeah, that's unfortunate for him. Hopefully Chris Paul can get it. I mean, Rajan, Rondo, same thing.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: I get it. I get it.
[00:06:04] Speaker C: Yeah, you all got the joke. Hopefully they can get it together or he can get it together in the future.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Some wild news. That's all we have for the news this week. Let's dive into our main segment. We are continuing with our positional top ten rankings for each of us. We've already done our point guards and shooting guards. Two weeks ago. Last week was our forwards, small forwards and power forwards. This week, we're diving into our centers and our 6th men, greatest of all time. Let's start it off with the centers, honorable mentions, and the number ten, Nick. Let's get it started.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: All right, so, for my honorable mentions, I have Joel Embiid and Robert Parrish. Joel Embiid, if he keeps up what he's been able to do for the next couple of years, he'll definitely move his way into the top ten. I think a championship, though, is something that's definitely holding him back because every single solitary guy ahead of him has. Well, besides, one guy has multiple championships, mvps, defensive player of the years. So he's got a long way to go. I do see one guy that he could pass, though. Very easily. He probably will pass by the end of his career. But number ten, I have Patrick Ewing. That's the guy that I think he could pass just with some playoff success going to the finals. Patrick Ewing had two finals appearances in the early final, in the early ninety s and late 90s. So Joe Ellen beads. Got to get one at least.
[00:07:20] Speaker C: I kind of like the Joe OmB take. Yeah, what do you mean?
That's a good take that he's right there on the border. I don't have him in my honorable mentions, but I would definitely say he's just outside. I have Robert Parrish and Willis Reed as my honorable mentions. I think both of them did a lot for the sport way back in the day. Parrish is a solidified winner. Willis Reed won an MVP in his time in New York as well. But at number ten, I have the oldhead himself. I have George Myken, the first really dominant big in basketball. Didn't really have the longevity of a great career, but his time in the NBA, he was kind of like the first dominant NBA player to be honest. So with that being said, I have George Miken.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Yeah, number ten. Well, first I'll go with my honorable mentions. Honorable mentions. I have Bob McAdoo, former MVP, Wes unselled. And Dwight Howard should be on the NBA 75 team, but he's not. So Dwight Howard kind of not. Yeah, he kind of got screwed. I'm going to say that because Damien Lillard made it and that's kind of crazy. But yeah. Number ten, I also have George Miken. Really the first goat of basketball when you look at it. His original stint in the NBA only lasted seven years. Not even seven, it actually lasted six.
But I mean, right out the gate he started dominating his rookie year, 28 a game. Next year, 27 right after that, 28 again led the league in rebounding multiple times. On the 75th team, three time scoring champion, all star mvp, four time all star. He's really done it all. Only seven years combined in his career, but he was that first dominant player in NBA history, so got to give the man his flowers. Okay.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: At number nine, I have Bill Walton, two time champ, one time MVP, six man of the year. He is the only other guy to win the MVP and the 6th man of the year in his career besides James Harden.
And he's know, unlike a couple of guys on here, he's as franchise as goat with no argument in my opinion. You could say Drexler, but Bill Walton, without injury he probably would have been much better. But I think that he's just a little bit better than Ewing.
[00:09:28] Speaker C: Yeah, Bill Walton just missed my list.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah, mine, too.
[00:09:31] Speaker C: But, yeah, he's definitely right there with the Grays. There's so many good centers. We could probably have done top 20 centers.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: One of the great finals runs of all time. Got to give. He's a beast.
[00:09:42] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Number nine. I have Pat Ewing. Nick touched on him just a second ago. Pat Ewing was fantastic all throughout the late eighty s and the ninety s. Really? That's kind of when he was in his prime. He was given Jordan good runs for his money in the Eastern Conference. Him and John Starks really kind of put Nick basketball on the map, even though they weren't able to win that championship.
It's kind of hard to when you have the goat in your conference. But as for Patrick Ewing, who knows how dominant he would have been had he not had to get past that roadblock of Michael Jordan.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Once again, cadence copying my list because nine. I also have Patrick Ewing. I swear this always happens, but, I mean, Ewing's one of the all time greats, which, what can you say? An eleven time all star, seven time all NBA rookie of the year, 75th anniversary team, three time all defensive selection. And like he said, michael Jordan was giving that man a run for his money. And if he was never in the NBA, who knows where Ewing would be? He'd probably have some titles on his finger, but wasn't the case. But Ewing was still dominant in a time where there was a lot of great centers in the NBA. The David Robinsons, the Elijah ones, the younger Shaquille O'Neill's, and he managed to dominate. So Patrick Ewing is my number nine center of all time. Okay.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Number eight, I have.
You know, I don't know why you're making that face for. Because, you know, it's not that crazy to say that, but anyway, David Robinson, MVP, three time champ. No, two. He got two time champ.
He was really good. But I just know because that face that Jamie was making, I think that the guys above him, there's like a gap that you guys think is between Julie serving and Kevin Durant. I think there's that type of gap between him and the guys that are above him.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: A gap. I don't know about a gap.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: Okay, but so that means you have Jokic above David Robinson, right?
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: I don't know if there's a huge gap between Jokic and.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: Okay, so I have Jokic at eight and, spoiler, I have Dave Robinson at.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Mean, you're not going to like where I have Jokic.
[00:11:49] Speaker C: Then I think Jokic could pass him this year. I think he probably will wins another MVP. Because if I had to put money on it, I would say Jokic wins MVP. I think it's between Jokic, Shea and Luca. And for some reason the media just does not want to push a Luca MVP.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's insane.
[00:12:08] Speaker C: So I think it will be one of Jokic or Shea.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: I won't watch basketball if it's the second guy you said I'll never again.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: There's like a good 50% chance you may not watch basketball.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Goodbye.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: Because I was on the same page as you. But it's and I agree now he shouldn't even be MVP. But it's looking like a lot more realistic just with MB only having like six games left that he can miss. But anyways, back on topic, I have Yokicha. Eight. I don't think that there is like a gap. I have David Robinson over him right now. I don't think there's a big gap at all. I think the gap comes after him when it gets to the top 1520 players of all time. But as for Yokich, who knows how long his career is going to be. A lot of people question how many more years he'll be in the NBA. But with that being said, his time in the NBA so far has been absolutely amazing.
I think he's having a 6th straight all star year. He just carried Denver to a championship in one of the best playoff runs that I've ever seen. Maybe the best playoff run I've ever witnessed. And it feels like Jokic gets better every year too. So with that being said, I have Jokic at eight and I think that he'll keep going up. I wouldn't be surprised by any means if he's top five or even top four by the end of his career.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah, eight. Nicole Yokich, I really agree with everything he just said. A five time all star, five time LMBA, two time champ and that 2023 NBA champion. Two time MVP. Sorry, 2023 NBA champion.
I got to see more just longevity. Sorry. Just because David Robinson accomplished so much in that long career and stayed in San Antonio the whole time and dominated all throughout its entirety.
I mean, Robinson is a ten time all NBA player, ten time all defensive team type guy. And yeah, Jokic is probably the best center we've seen in the NBA in a long time, especially in recent memory. But since shat, yeah, really.
So I just don't think he's at David Robinson yet. But I do think it's extremely close and he could pass him up soon. I think he's really close to Moses Malone right there, too.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: Okay, well, number seven, that's where I have Moses Malone. Moses Malone, I think two time champ, if I'm correct. I know he won a couple mvps.
He also is a guy that was one of the first really big name superstars in the NBA. Played with a lot of good players, played with a lot of good teams.
And he won the Sixers, I think two, you know, just a really good player. He also has one of the craziest buzer beaters of all time where he goes on the court and throws it up from the corner and it's like in the finals. But yeah, Moses Malone is number seven for me.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Okay, I have David Robinson at number think. You know, David Robinson, one of the most dominant bigs of all time, had the quadruple double. He was a beast down low. He could score. He could facilitate as well, which was a big thing. I think he was really one of the first centers to facilitate an offense. And I think Popovich brought that out of him. I think David Robinson is obviously one of the spurs greats. That kind of goes overlooked a little bit, honestly, because when you think of the spurs, you think more so of Tony Parker, Manu and Tim Duncan. A lot of people forget about David Robinson and the success he had before all those other guys got there. And for that reason, I have the admiral at number seven.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Number seven is where I have Moses Malone.
I think this whole stretch from like eight to where are we at eight? Seven and six, I think is really interchangeable.
And you could really make an argument for anybody to be there for Moses. He had an extremely long career. I mean, he played everywhere, played for nine teams throughout his career, which I'm not going to say it hinders him, but he definitely did slow down towards the end of his career as he was team hopping. But again, that doesn't take away from his accomplishments. A 13 time all star, three time MVP, eight times all NBA six time rebounding champ and one time NBA champ. So he's done a lot, nearly everything you could do in the NBA, but he really did slow down towards the end. And even the beginning wasn't extremely impressive. But the middle times of his career was domination personified. So modes I have at seven, but I think it's extremely interchangeable and you can make an argument for anybody.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Okay, number six, I have Wilt Chamberlain, 100 points.
He was on a lot of super teams. Never got to win anything just because of how dominant Bill Russell was, and Will Chamberlain was, like, the first, I'll say the first really athletic player in the NBA. Just because before that, like you guys are saying, george, Mike and guys like that, those were the best players. Guys like point guards are like five, six, stuff like that.
It was really impressive that he's got 100. Nobody's gotten necessarily close to it. Kobe had 81, Luca just had 73. But 100 has not been done yet. As well as him being like, I think, top five scoring or something like that. He was also on the NBA 75 team, one time champ, and I think he really only had about three to four mvps because I think Bill Russell.
[00:17:30] Speaker C: Had the majority of those as well.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: But Bill Russell had five.
[00:17:37] Speaker C: So you have.
I mean, wow.
Yeah.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: That's a take.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: You want me to say something that y'all might think is crazy? I think having Julius Irving over Kevin Durant is crazier than that, honestly.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: I think so, too.
[00:17:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't mind that. I don't mind Jokic just because part of it, too is we watch know. This is like a guy that we've seen kind of blossom and develop. And he is actually one of the goats, I don't know if you would say, of our generation, but maybe, like, this generation coming up is for sure going to always remember Jokic, Janice, Luca, those are probably the three best players that they watch growing up. And Jokic is probably.
I may even say he may be the most skilled center I've ever seen. Easily.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:18:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I could say that, too. I could say he's easily the most skilled.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Might be the most skilled player of all time.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: Yeah, that's not crazy to say either. So, yeah, you've kind of built me up on Jokic more, but I like him at eight right now. But I do think MVP, he could jump to, like six or five for me. I don't know if he would jump wilt yet this year, no matter what he does.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: If he wins a ring.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: If he wins a ring, we're getting.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: If he sweeps, like, MVP, ring, finals MVP again.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Yeah, he'd be right, basically.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Top 15 all time if he does that. Yeah, probably.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: But, yeah, I have Moses Malone at six, though, right now. And this is where there's, like, a gap to me because, I don't know. Moses Malone was really good, especially in the prime of his career. I think he made, like, twelve straight all star games, which is pretty insane to think about. He played for a very long time, too. He played for almost 20 years.
He was a one time champ. He was a six time rebounding champ, two time all defense, eight time all NBA, three time MVP. He was a Finals MVP as well. Dude was just an absolute unit. He was averaging 32, 31. Sorry, one year. I like Moses Malone a lot. He sits up there high in the all time list as well as far as scoring and rebounding go. And I don't even know if they were recording blocks, like, in the early stage of his, stages of his career, so who knows where he would rank there. But, yeah. As for Moses Malone, I have him at six right now. I think the longevity that he had and how dominant he was for such a long time, I think that kind of keeps him up there for me.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. Like I said earlier, I think this whole area is interchangeable. But at six is where I have David Robinson, the Admiral hall of Famer, ten time all star, eight time all defensive team. He has one thing that Moses Malone doesn't, and that's a defensive player of the year. He's also a block champion, scoring champion, and only three times in his career, he averaged under two blocks a game, and that was his final two years. And then one year where he only played six games because of injury. But Robinson was drafted and missed his first two years because he was in the military. Came back and averaged 24 a game.
What he did was extremely impressive.
He was built like a monster, and he did everything right. David Robinson was incredible from the start all the way to the end. That's why I have my six. It's a little bit of bias because I really like David Robinson, but, yeah, my dad's his favorite player of all time, so D Rob got him at six. A little bit of bias, but I think he can definitely back up that positioning.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Okay, so we're at five now.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: All right, so this is where I'll draw the line. This is where I have Yokich. So two time mvp, champion of last year, like you were saying, six time all star, couple of time, all NBA. And I'll just say, as of the think he's been the best player in the 2020s, accolade wise, he has the most with the two mvps.
[00:21:30] Speaker C: Yeah, he's got to be the best player of the 2020s.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: With the title, the more impressive title, because Giannis did kind of have a semi easy route to the finals. We're talking Atlanta, a team that hasn't even made the playoffs. Well, they made it last year, but they were the 8th seed. So I just feel like Jokic being the best player of a decade that can really boost you up in my opinion. Also, he's on pace to be the second all time leader in triple doubles by the end of his career, if not one. I hope he doesn't get to one, but at some point he will be two and probably will be one depending on how he plays, how long he plays. But he just has a very complete game. He's not the greatest defender, but it's just counting stats wise, it doesn't show.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I was about to say if you actually watch him play, especially last year in those playoff runs, he's defending well. He's not just like your average slow defender like that. You may think just from seeing his offense physique, but yeah, he can stand his ground on the defensive end.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: It just doesn't look good as far as like blocks and stuff because that's not what he. But honestly, it's more valuable for him to just be a good defender and the other teams have missed shots instead of him just blocking. But yeah, that's fine for sure.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: At number five, this is where I went with Wilt Chamberlain just reading off his first six years in the league averages three 7385-044-3634 I know it was back in the day, but I don't care what era you're in, like, averaging 40 50 points a game is ridiculous. And in the 50 point per game season, he only made ten free throws a game. So that's 20 buckets because he's not shooting threes and there wasn't a three point line back then. So that's 20 buckets a game every night. Every night he was giving a team, he was making 20 shots, which is just ridiculous to even conceive. So really probably the most dominant player of all time as far as ahead of the competition and scoring. Yeah, it's stuff in the stat sheet in general as well, like rebounds. First four years in the league averaged 2727-2524 like, you would think that was points.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Crazy.
[00:23:47] Speaker C: That's rebounds. I don't think he averaged less than 21 rebounds in the league until his 10th season.
Yeah, and the least that he ever averaged in a year was 18.4.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: That's insane.
[00:24:01] Speaker C: Will Chamberlain at five?
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you think there's a gap between Bill Russell and Will Chamberlain? No, I don't think there is either.
Yes, he has the rings, he has the mvps.
It's always tough for me. I always go back and forth on Bill Russell and Walt Chamberlain, but I'm bringing the hot takes today. So I'm going to go Bill Russell at five.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's insanity.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: I'm here for the hot takes. I'm here for it.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: I don't completely disagree.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, he's a twelve time all star. He has the accolades, hall of Famer, four time rebounding champ, eleven time all NBA. And what he's most known for is those eleven championships. Also a five time MVP. Yes, he was extremely accomplished, but in a time where, I mean, I hate to say he's facing plumbers, but in a time where there was a lot less athletic and he wasn't averaging the same numbers as Wilt Chamberlain, kind of baffles me.
He also does have more mvps than Wilt Chamberlain, but he won an MVP in that year where Chamberlain averaged 50 points, 27 rebounds because players voted for the MVP. And I watched this documentary and the players legitimately despised Will Chamberlain for who he was. So they didn't vote for him. So I do think those mvps, it's weird to say, but they are a little inflated.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I agree.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Will Chamberlain should have had that MVP where he averaged 50 a game because that not winning MVP and averaging that is absurd. And there were so many players who were great at that time period. Elgin Baylor was going crazy, Oscar Robertson was crazy, but Bill Russell nonetheless extremely talented. But he was on some stacked teams. Yes, he was possibly the greatest rebounder of all time, but I think Will Chamberlain just barely noses him out. But again, I hate saying the word interchangeable because I've said it so many times, but I really think that's the way to put it. So, yeah, Bill Russell at five. Okay.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: I have Bill Russell at know the most accomplished athlete of all time as far as rings go. I mean, nobody's won nearly as much as he did. Along with five mvps. That's like 16 of the most important accomplishments you can get in the sport. And then, not to mention he kind of brought the city of Boston specifically, I guess you would say life or something with the sports because before, after him, they're kind of now known as, I would say, the biggest NBA team.
[00:26:27] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm like a sports in general. It'd be the Red Sox.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. But I'm just saying as far as.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. For basketball. Yeah. For like, he's kind of like set the standard.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:26:39] Speaker C: For what.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: And especially back then, the city of Boston was winning a, you know, he's one of the main reasons of he, um, that's why he has a finals mvp named after him, because he won.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: So, so, yeah, for sure. I have Bill Russell at number four as.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Mean.
[00:26:59] Speaker C: He's just a winner. I think he is the greatest rebounder of all time just because of his height. He wasn't over seven, six, nine. Yeah, he wasn't over seven foot. Basketball reference has him listed at 610. I've heard that he was shorter than that six like 6869 range and he was still averaging 22 and a half rebounds a game in his career. Probably the greatest winner in NBA history. Nobody is even going to come close to breaking that record ever. Probably sports history of eleven. Yeah.
And then what he did for the sport outside of just playing on the court made a huge impact. Bill Russell, probably one of the most impactful NBA players of all time. And then kind of like what Nick said, I 100% agree. The Boston wouldn't be the Boston Celtics without Bill Russell. He set the standard for the Celtics and he's kind of the reason the Celtics are known as one of the better franchises or the best franchise in the NBA.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I know I went on that little tangent earlier, but I got the Big Dipper. Will chamberlain a little bit over Bill Russell just because of the domination?
It's definitely arguable who's the most dominant player of all time. But I mean, when you look at these statistics, it's hard to argue it not being will chamberlain. 3738-5044-3634-3830-33 points a game. And those are all in consecutive years. And not to mention like Kaden mentioned earlier, all those crazy rebounding totals. It's just insane what he did in that time period. And it's not like he was some no winning scrub. He still managed those two NBA championships. Four MVPs, ten times all NBA, and a seven time scoring champ. Eleven rebounding titles too, and a rookie of the year. He's legitimately accomplished everything that there is to accomplish in the NBA. He wasn't the same winner as Bill Russell, but I would say he was the better player than Bill Russell. And that's why he just nudges him out in my list. So now we can go to the top three.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Okay, this is where I know that we're about to have another argument like we did last week. So at number three, I have Hakeem Alaja. One two time champ, two time MVP. I think he won two while Jordan was out.
[00:29:13] Speaker C: Yeah, it was the two years where he, Jordan was out baseball and plays ball. He was playing on the Baron.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: So I have Akeem. He probably has the best post moves of all time. He was kind of a stretch big before a stretch big to an extent. He could really shoot anywhere that was inside of the three point line. And he's also, I could confidently say, a top three defender of all time. I don't know who else would really be on that list, but he's definitely top three defender of all time. He also had longevity. He would have been one of the guys to stay on his franchise the whole time, but for whatever reason, he wanted to go to Toronto for the last couple of years.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that was weird. Bit of a weird decision.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: I have Hakeem at three, though.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: Yeah, it was actually just his last year, so he was in Houston every year before that. I have Hakeem at three as well. Hakeem made All Star games his first six years in the league and then missed an all Star game because he was, like, plagued with injuries or something. He only played like 50 games and then came back the next season and went to six straight more All Star games. He also had, like, a couple of 20 points per game years where he didn't make the all star team as well. He was a twelve time all star, two time defensive player of the year. He only did win one MVP.
Who would have wanted that?
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Charles Barkley.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Or maybe Charles.
[00:30:36] Speaker C: It had to have been Chuck, right? Yeah. But it shows how great Jordan is, too, because as soon as Jordan leaves, Hakeem just dominated. Hakeem would be a top five player of all time, probably. I know we talk about. I do specifically, I talk about hypotheticals with, like, what if Jordan didn't play this one specifically? I think Hakeem really would have owned the think. That's what we would have remembered the 90s as being Hakeem's era. He was that good.
He got a couple of rings when Jordan left finals mvps. In both, he performed the most at his highest level when it mattered most. I have Akeema at three.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: It is one of my hottest basketball hot takes that I have Akeem Alajwan over Shaquille O'Neill all time, and I've spoken about it on the podcast before.
Yeah, it's definitely a hot take. I'm sorry, but I've spoken on it before and I take Skill into account pretty heavily when I'm doing these rankings. And I think skill wise, Hakeem Alajwan was better than Shaquille O'Neal because he revolutionized the post game to what we see it as today. Nobody has the same footwork as Hakeem Alajwan. Yes. I'm not saying Shaquille O'Neal was not skilled whatsoever but I would say it was his body that mostly got him a lot of the points. He was stronger than everybody, bigger than everybody, and, I mean, he was dominant. I will say that now. I'm not saying Hakeem is way over Shaquille O'Neill, because that's not the case. I could make a two a two b type deal.
I honestly might do a two a two b type deal. But Hakeem Alajwan, for what he did, revolutionizing offensively what a center can do, he was really doing what no other centers were doing. He had the perfect jump shot. He shot like a guard. Best footwork possibly in NBA history. One of the greatest defenders ever.
That is why I have him over Shaquille O'Neill personally. Also because he was consistent every year of his career. Twelve seasons, played over 70 games.
So, I mean, he was always there. Shaquille O'Neill slowed down pretty heavily as he got older, probably. He honestly played longer than he really should have. Yes, he might be the greatest Boston Celtic of all time.
That's my argument on the Hakeem and Shaq whole ordeal. So I'll let you guys get to your number two.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: All right, so I'll let you go ahead and go with all the accolades and stuff. I'll just talk about, more or less, why I think that I don't like the take that Shaquille O'Neill used his body.
[00:33:03] Speaker C: Okay, well, I don't think the strength got him those buckets. No one in NBA history has ever been able to utilize their strength and build like Shaq did. Like, Shaq wasn't just like your lanky, big dude. That's only good because he's big. He took that size and strength.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: No, I'm not saying was only strong. He had great footwork, too. Those post spin moves, he didn't have much of a fader, and he was not an effective free throw shooter whatsoever, but he utilized that footwork to get down low and just dunk on people.
So I'm not saying he wasn't skilled, because he definitely was.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: This is what really got me. Like, okay, he might be number one.
[00:33:42] Speaker C: I was closer to putting him at one than I was at.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: You got to watch how he played in Orlando and early in LA, where it's just Yanis. It's just literally, just like watching Giannis. He was taking the ball up the court. He was diving for loose balls.
[00:33:57] Speaker C: Imagine Giannis. But it was like, if Giannis wanted to score literally every single possession of the game, he could. I think that shaq could have scored every single possession of the.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: Steve Nash.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Yeah, hakeem Elijah didn't have that talent.
[00:34:14] Speaker C: That's the thing, though. Those were not Kobe's team. No, that was shaq's team.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: But Hakeem Elajwan was the one who won those two championships while Jordan was gone.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: He had Clyde.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Yeah, but, I mean, shaq had Kobe, but was it Clyde's team?
[00:34:27] Speaker A: No, it was a team.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: Come on. It's shaquille O'Neal. It's Akeem Elajawan.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Shiloh O'Neal is, like, probably the third most influential.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: This isn't about maybe even athlete of all time. It's not about influence, because Akeem Elajawan is not going to go on NBA on TNT. Shaquille O'Neill has a big personality.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah, but shaquille O'Neal does the gold bond commercials.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: Gold bond is what puts him over.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: But no, his post moves are not, like, too much lower than Hakeem.
If you just sit there and watch.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Maybe getting to the Orlando.
[00:35:03] Speaker C: I don't think anybody's ever drop stepped as good as shaq, and I would say that's probably the most prominent center move of all time. No, center, like, centers drop step and centers drop. They do mainly because of Shaquille O'Neill.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: And, like, thinking about who was down there guarding him in the basket.
George Mirison, who's 77, was guarding shaq, and shaq was dunking on him. And I get there's a whole argument like, oh, shaq lost to Hakeem in the finals. Well, shaquille O'Neill is in his second year in the NBA, getting to the NBA Finals.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: What year was that?
[00:35:36] Speaker A: 95. 94. 95. He got drafted in 92. 93. So third year in the league, that's unheard of. Now, that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen in the.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: Honestly, I mean, Akeem wasn't all that bad in his third year, either.
[00:35:51] Speaker C: 24 game when he was 36.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Shaq's longevity. Yeah, he was great at the end of his career.
[00:35:58] Speaker B: No, he was, but just that his.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Last year was bad. He was basically an all star in Cleveland.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Again, I'm not saying Hakeem is so far over Shaq. I said it's a two a two b type deal. But again, I just think the way he revolutionized the post game as a post score, he shot that fade, which is something Shaq didn't have.
Yeah, that's why I have Hakeem over him. But again, it's close, but number one.
[00:36:20] Speaker C: All right, Shaq guards. Shaq guards like Prime Shaq. Prime Hakeem down low.
And they go offense, defense, and they're playing the three, all ones.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: I'm taking Shaq. I'm taking Akeem because Shaq's just going to body him down.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: Guarding Shaqeem was a better defender than Shaq.
[00:36:43] Speaker C: Prime Shaq.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: He was guarding Tiger.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: I want to see how wasn't third year Shaq, Prime Shaq like you were.
[00:36:47] Speaker C: We need to go back and watch. But he a magic versus rockets game and see, like, young Shaq against Prime McKeem.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:54] Speaker C: And how they matched up.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Like, shaq was great then, but he wasn't like Lakers Shaq, where he's dunking on Chris Dudley and then throwing the ball at him.
It's just Yanis because he even put on like 35 pounds after he got huge.
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that's when the whole, like, Shaq diesel thing started. Because, I mean, that's what Phil Jackson wanted him to do. Like, Phil Jackson just wanted to utilize that size more so than the playmaking ability because you have Kobe Bryant on.
[00:37:20] Speaker A: The team and Derek. Yeah. Rick Fox, Robert Ori.
[00:37:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: But number one, we all have the same guy. Like you were kind of saying, I'm honestly really close to having check one. But he's not because Kareem has six titles, six mvps, the most mvps in NBA history.
Also the number one scorer for like 40 years. And then also, not to mention I made this point a long time ago. I think that Kareem was the first greatest player of all time. Up until Jordan came along, nobody was really like Kareem. I do have magic Johnson over Kareem all time, but that's just basically based off of preference and kind of a little bit of bias. But, yeah, Kareem's one. I feel like there is a debate.
[00:38:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say it's the debate, but it was kind of like, I thought about Shaq for a second, then I was like, nah, kareem, he had the all star game record until LeBron broke it this year. He had the points record until LeBron broke it last year. 19 time all star, which is just ridiculous.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Like, come on.
[00:38:23] Speaker C: In the one year that he missed the all star game, he averaged 26.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: What was that his last year?
[00:38:28] Speaker C: No, it was like, middle of his career when he was in LA.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: But, like, imagine if he only played 62 games. So I think he was injured most of the year or something. So if it wasn't for that season, though, he would have been an all star every single year of his career. That's crazy. So he would have had 20 all stars like LeBron, if dubbed when he was averaging 26 and 13. Yeah. That's the only year of his career. 20, 613 and four assists.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: That's the only year of his career he didn't play 70 games or more.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: That is crazy, too.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: And he played forever. Yeah. Kareem Abdul Jabar, to me, is the best center of all time. 19 time all star, six time NBA champ, eleven all defensive team, six MVP.
[00:39:07] Speaker C: He had over half a decade of MVP.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: That's insane. 15 time all NBA. That's why I have him third all time behind Jordan and LeBron. But Kareem Abdul Jabar, what he did was absolutely absurd. His longevity was better than anybody. Nearly all time.
Yeah. I mean, there's not really much else to say. Kareem was that guy. He was the goat until Michael Jordan came.
That's. That's the centers. Now, as I've been to our six men of the year, this one could get pretty interesting depending on who we're taking into consideration what we're varying. So six men, Nick, let's go.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: All right, so I'll just go ahead and say for my list, it's not necessarily about how many awards you won or how. It's all about how.
What would you say, I guess, how much you elevated the team and elevated this, that, and the third whenever you were off the bench. So with that being said, my two honorable mentions are Kevin McHale. Because he wasn't really a six man. He wasn't known as a six man. So that's why he's not on my list as a six man. He might have played some years as a six man, but I see him as a top seven power forward of all time. So he's not really.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: So you have Kevin Mikhail off your list.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: That's crazy because he's above that for me.
[00:40:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying, but the time that he spent as a six man.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: Sure. I'll throw him on here. All right, well, I'll move my list on here. I'll move my list a little bit. I'll throw them on here. So my two honorable mentions then are Michael Cooper and Andre Egydala.
[00:40:49] Speaker C: I have both of them on my.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: And that's really valid. But like I was saying, it's just.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: Like this list can literally go anywhere.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: This is about to be crazy and just overall skill as a player. And that's why it gets a little weird, because I have two people on here that are like my top five all time favorite players, but they're not even top three on the list. But they're just on here because of their impact off the bench. That was the word I was looking for was impact.
But number ten, I have Tony Ku. Coach, I don't know what was he there for the back three?
[00:41:25] Speaker B: I think he wanted six men in 1995.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I was saying the back three of the 96.
[00:41:31] Speaker C: Of the dynasty.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:41:33] Speaker C: One of the most hyped up like international players of all time.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Jerry Krause wanted to get pippen out of there and make him the small forward.
It's a little delusional, but I do think Tony Kukoch was a very good player.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: If you go back and look at.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: How he played, it's just Kevin Durant without the ball in his hand every play and not on a defensive level, but he was seven foot shooting over everybody.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:59] Speaker C: Beast. For my honorable mentions, I have Del Curry, Charlote, all time leading score, one of six man with them.
Is he the all time leading score still?
[00:42:10] Speaker B: No, it's coming down.
[00:42:11] Speaker C: It's coming down, I was thinking. But he was for years, 30 years. And then another honorable mention I have is James Harden. Just because he was a huge piece on a team that made it to the finals. Six man of the year on that team as well.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: I'm not out of that at all.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: And number ten, I have Vinny Johnson, six man of the bad boy Pistons. He hit the game winning shot in game five of the finals. Whichever year the bad boy Pistons won it. I think Vinny Johnson brought a lot of offense off the bench. Your stereotypical six man guard. He just brought offense off the bench and he elevated his play in the playoffs as well. He was kind of one of the main reasons why they won one of the two of their finals.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Yeah. For honorable mentions, I have Lamar Odom, Vinny Johnson and Robert Ori as my honorable mentions. Number ten, I also have Tony Kukoch, the croatian sensation, three time NBA champion, all rookie team and a six man in the 1995 to 96 season. He was a big reason that the Bulls got to that championship in that time. He was phenomenal for his time period. I mean, he was a poor man's Kevin Durant. I guess you could say that.
Seven footer shooting over everybody. He didn't have the bag Kevin Durant had and he wasn't there defensively. But it wasn't enough to get him a six man of the year and to get the Bulls to another of those six championships during that dynasty. So Tony Ku coach, he's definitely a top ten six man of the year.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Okay, number nine, I have Jason Terry, another guy that's like one of the greatest players to come off of the bench and just impact wise, whenever he was on the floor for Dallas when they won the title, it was just, I mean, they were a whole nother level of being elevated while they're even playing small ball against know they're running JJ Berea, Jason Kidd and Jason Terry. And half of those times, JJ Barrea and Jason Terry were guarding LeBron, holding into like six points per, you know, Jason Terry, that's why he's number nine on my list.
And I just know basically wherever he know, guys respected him. Guys kind of looked at him as the vet of the locker room when he was in Milwaukee. Giannis really said that he learned a lot from him when he was in Atlanta.
They were pretty good.
[00:44:30] Speaker C: But yeah, at number nine for me, I have John Havlice.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Way higher.
[00:44:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I thought about putting him way higher, but I don't know. Hondo didn't really come off the bench like his whole career. He is the Celtics all time leading scorer. I think he did snag a six man of the year or two, but as for Hondo, I just think of him more. It's kind of like what you were saying with McHale. Like, I just think of Hondo more of his time starting, his time coming off the bench. He was still good, but just not as impactful, I would say just because of the other stars he had on his team. Not as impactful as some of the guys that I have above him and wasn't like excelling off that bench role as much as some of the guys that I have above Hondo, but one of the best celtics of all time. I have my nine.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah, at my 9th spot. I have one of the only two time six man of the year award winners of all time and that is Ricky Pierce, who kind of played everywhere. His nickname is big paper Daddy. Not sure why, but one time all star, two time six man of the year, won those awards as a part of the Seattle SuperSonics and Milwaukee Bucks.
Very solid throughout his career. You don't really recognize the name Ricky Pierce as being a notable name, but I mean, 1989, averaged 23 a game. Next year average 2022 21 two years later, he was a great score. Averaged 15 a game throughout his career. Very solid shooter throughout that time. So Ricky Pierce, not the most notable name, but one of the only two time six man of the year award winners ever, and definitely deserves his flowers.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: What are we?
I have.
I'd say this guy is probably, like.
I probably put him at like, number four or five on here. As far as just all time status.
Yeah, maybe not, actually. I forget what? I forget that Jamal Crawford is who I have at Seven. Might seem a little low, but that's just because of what I said, what I'm taking into account, like, into account here, and it's not what you did. How many six man you have. It's about your impact off of the bench.
That's how I'm taking it, into accountability. And he never got to a conference finals, so that's why he's number seven. But I do really like Jamal Crawford.
[00:46:51] Speaker C: I don't know, I just think when you're looking at six men and people coming off of iconic, he's like the ideal. He is the 6th nobody that's ever embraced. But that's not like being a six man.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: That's not like what I base my list off of. It was just based off of pure impact as far as how they're making their teammates play, how much the entire script of the game can change just by them coming into the game.
That's where I have it.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: Yeah, but I think Jamal Crawford, the.
[00:47:26] Speaker A: Guys that I have above him, though, did it on another level.
[00:47:29] Speaker B: Another level.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: Are doing it on another level.
Currently. Are doing currently.
[00:47:35] Speaker C: Oh, my God, he has Westbrook.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That is insane. He's not even an honorable mention. Dude's been six man for like, not even half a season.
[00:47:43] Speaker A: Three years.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: Come on, dude.
Yeah.
[00:47:48] Speaker C: I have Kucoach at eight. I think Kucoach was one of the main reasons why they got those back. Three championships.
I think what he did for the game internationally was huge as well. He was like the first really famous international player, it feels like. And he was super hyped up coming out of the draft, and he fit into that six man role perfectly. And he even flourished later in his career when he got opportunities elsewhere, like in Atlanta. He had a great season. He probably should have been an all star somewhere there along the line. I can't believe that he wasn't. He's probably one of the best players to ever. He. He may be, like the best player to not have an all star, but he's a three time champ and he was a one time six man of the year. And he was an instant impact. As soon as he came in from overseas, he was one of the best rookies in the league and he really helped Jordan Pippen Rodman take that next step into getting three more in the back half of the 90s, which was a really tough time to play in the NBA.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Yeah, my next spot. This is where I have John Havelice at eight. Never a six man of the year, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't an award back when he played. I'm sure he would have won it. He was a six man for the first six years of his career and in those years it was great numbers getting upwards or pretty close to 20 points a game. He hit 21 in that fifth year. But John Havelcheck, the all time Celtics leading score, eight time NBA champion, first six years off the bench. I'm sure he would have won the award had it existed, but it didn't and he didn't spend his whole career off the bench. So Hondo is going to sit at eight for me.
[00:49:17] Speaker A: Okay, number six, this is where I have James Harden.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: Six or seven?
[00:49:22] Speaker A: Oh seven. Is that where we're at?
[00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:24] Speaker A: Okay, so number seven, this is where I have James Harden.
And so I'll just talk about why I have him here and basically everything else like that. So besides Tony Kukoch and Andre Eggidala, he is the only guy that I've spoke about that was able to get to an NBA championship. Michael Cooper, yeah, you could. Whatever.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: But James Harden, he was the third best player on the team. He was averaging 18 points per game. And then coming from a person that watched that season, whenever he would come in, it would Westbrook, KD Kendrick Perkins, Sergey Baca. Everybody would play at a whole different level just based off of you add his playmaking with Westbrook, playmaking, then the spacing on the floor, everything just worked out a lot better. And then you just look at what they were able to do. They were 23, 22 years old, getting to the NBA Finals and then they won a game too. So he didn't have a good series. He played really bad. That was what led in the trade for him to get traded away. But nevertheless, the entire playoffs, besides that final series, he was the second best player.
[00:50:35] Speaker C: Some nights I have Michael Cooper at number seven. For me, I think when I talk about guys, part of being a six man is like accepting that role and not trying to do too much. You see guys a lot, just like the guy that Nick just mentioned that have a hard time playing in a role. And I think that as far as what you want in a six man, you're not looking to have your number one option be the six man. You're looking for a guy that can do exactly what they're told to do and exactly what they're needed to do for the team. I think Michael Cooper did that very well, especially with the Lakers in their run in the 80s with magic. Michael Cooper didn't have the best numbers, but like I was just saying, he did that exceptionally well. And where he really made a name for himself was his defense. He's one of the best perimeter defenders probably ever to play basketball. He was one of the first kind of like lanky modern day defenders that we see now, like a long wingspan guy. So he could really guard at all three levels of the court. For that reason, I have Michael Cooper at number seven. Five time NBA champ, a time all defense, by the way.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I kind of forgot about him.
[00:51:44] Speaker C: Player of the year.
[00:51:45] Speaker B: Yeah, he's my honorable mention because when I was looking around, I didn't see his name. I don't know why. So he'll be my honorable mention. He's not on my list, but my next number seven is the 2011 six man of the year, nicknamed El Chapo and big time San Francisco 49 ers fan, James Harden. Nick already touched on him early year and he watched him during that season. So he kind of took a lot of what I was going to say, but he was really good in that six man of the year season, averaged 16 a game and unlike a lot of other guys, was a part of a championship. He didn't win the championship, but an NBA Finals roster, a very young team which faced a very loaded Miami Heat roster. But nonetheless, he was phenomenal in that one season. He was coming off the bench and he's extremely accomplished. One of the more accomplished players of all time. So James Harden's going to be at that 7th spot for me.
[00:52:35] Speaker A: Okay, number six, this is where I have, you know, like I was saying. Like you were saying about that's. I don't think of him as a six man, but I'll give him enough respect to move my list down a little bit and throw him in there.
I don't know necessarily what years he was even a six man. I don't know if it was.
[00:52:59] Speaker C: He was early.
[00:53:00] Speaker A: Eighty s. Okay, so if that's the case, then he didn't win in the 84.
[00:53:03] Speaker C: He did win.
[00:53:04] Speaker A: Did he win a title as a six man? Because if not, then that's why I wouldn't have him as an honorable mention.
[00:53:10] Speaker B: Who?
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Kevin McHale?
[00:53:11] Speaker B: It didn't exist. I don't think it was like.
[00:53:13] Speaker C: No. Did he win a title as know.
[00:53:15] Speaker B: I don't know, he might have.
[00:53:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll have to look it up. Keep talking.
[00:53:22] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:53:22] Speaker A: Well, regardless, it really fluctuates the list whether or not he was able to. Because we're talking maybe like top three if he was able to win a title as the six man. But I think of him as more of a starting level power forward. The second best player on those teams sometimes. Really?
[00:53:42] Speaker C: What, two, two rings, three finals appearances off the bench.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: So for only one of those, he wasn't a starter.
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:53:50] Speaker A: All right.
Honestly, I want to move him up.
[00:53:54] Speaker C: But no, off the bench. Yeah, coming off the bench.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Honestly, I want to move him up.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:59] Speaker A: Six man ladder. But I'm just not going to do it right now because then I got to do too much math, all that stuff. So anyway, I'll just continue to talk about him. Really good player. A couple time all star and. Yeah, come Mikael.
[00:54:14] Speaker B: This is.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: What are we at? Number seven.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: Number six.
[00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah, number six. That sounds good.
[00:54:19] Speaker C: I have big shot Bob at number six. Koozie. Robert Hori.
Yeah, I have him at number six. He was just kind of like. Like I said, guys that just know how to play in a six man role off the bench.
There's Robert Horry. Robert Horry is one of the first names you kind of think of when you just think of guys that come off the bench. He's one of the best winners in NBA history. Seven time NBA champ. He made an instant impact as soon as he came in the league. He was on that all rookie team in the early 90s. He averaged double digits a few years of his career as well. But the main thing was he just won games. He hit big shots in the finals. He helped teams excel and get to that next level. And in his older years, he was a great mentor for some of the young teams that were winning in the NBA, like the spurs.
[00:55:07] Speaker B: My 6th spot is where I have. Andre Gadala never won an award for six man of the year because his stats didn't necessarily pop out. But my goodness, was he a winner? A big piece for those golden state Warriors championships. He even won a Finals MVP. Was it the most deserving finals mvp? Probably not. But they say he locked up LeBron James and LeBron scored like 36 a game. So Andre Gadallas, sure, man. But nonetheless, the warriors, I'm not going to say they wouldn't have reached the NBA title without him, but he was definitely a big piece. He was quite possibly the best defender on the perimeter of those teams. A one time all star. He was very, very solid. I will say that a part of a good amount of NBA championship teams. So I'll put iggy right there at.
[00:55:52] Speaker A: What? What are we at? Number six. Okay, so number five, this is where I have Robert Ori as well.
Like you were just know he won a lot of championships and he usually wasn't a starter. At know Rick Fox was starting over.
Yeah, I guess Rick Fox is starting over him for the majority of those laker years. And then the Rockets, they had, I.
[00:56:18] Speaker B: Think he started on those Rockets.
[00:56:19] Speaker A: Lotus Thorpe was starting over him and Vincent Askew and Mario Ellie, all those guys.
But nevertheless, like you guys are saying, no award for it. But that's one thing that I take into heavy. What's it called? Accountability is know the award doesn't necessarily mean anything to me because it's just about impact for me. And this guy, impact wise, is number five.
[00:56:45] Speaker C: I have Lou will at number five. He's a three time six man of the year. The only other person to do that is Jay crossover. But as for Lou will, he had the longevity. He played in the NBA Forever. He's probably one of the best journeymen of all time. Him and LeBron.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Take this house to South beach.
[00:57:05] Speaker C: Yeah, but, yeah, Lou will, even in the latter years of his career, once he got into his 30s, that's when he really started scoring. When he was on those lob city teams, he averaged 22, 23 one year, and then the next year averaged 20 again for them. He was really impactful off the bench. He was just a microwave guy. There's some six man that can come in and help kind of facilitate, but then there's others that when you're in a cold stretch and you need a bucket, you can just look at them and say, get in. Go get us a bucket. That's kind of like that outdoor, pure Hooper style of basketball that Lou will played. And I think that's really the ideal thing to look for in a six man. So I value that a lot. A guy that can come off the bench and help when your offense is just completely depleted. And Lou will did just that. And that's why he won three six man of the year awards.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: He certainly did at my five spot. This is where I have one of the only two time six man award winners of the year and one of the great supersonics. That's Detliff Shrimp, another one of the incredible players. He began his career in Dallas. I didn't even know that. But he goes to Indiana. Six man backing up some solid players like Reggie Miller.
And he balls out 16 a game, 17 a game multiple times, 19 a game. In his last year in Indiana. He was a bucket. And when you talk about some Kevin Durant esque players, Detlev Shrimp was definitely one of those guys. 610 was able to shoot over anybody, was a great defender, strength, did what he did, and he got two. Six man of the years gets sent over to Seattle and becomes one of the better Seattle players of all time. So debt loves Trump. That's my number five.
[00:58:41] Speaker A: Okay, so this is where I get into a little bit of like a debate, I'd say. So this is where I have Russell Westbrook. And let me just say something before you all say anything. So, like I said, I'm taking into accountability impact. Whenever he is on the court versus like, let's just say Terrence Mann and the Clippers are down by like, let's say 15, the entire offense gets flipped around and we'll get a 15 point lead. And then, not to mention the defensive impact, he's going to be a first team all defensive player this year.
Stats don't matter, but he's averaging like one and a half steals and like a block in less than 20 minutes per game. Half the time he's averaging like 22 or something like that. And still being able to put up like twelve six and seven or twelve five and seven.
The best rebounding guard of all time. And he's still being able to prove that off the bench in little to no minutes for a Hall of famer. And like I was just saying, impact wise, I mean, whenever he is on the court, it's just, something just happens with the team. It doesn't matter whether or not who's on the court. If you have Kawhi Leonard or you have Westbrook, or you have this, that, and the third, they're going to be.
What's that?
[01:00:07] Speaker B: I was looking something up, bro.
[01:00:08] Speaker A: Just say it.
[01:00:09] Speaker B: I just looked up how many games he's played off the bench, and 98, so a little over a year's worth. But I don't think a year.
[01:00:17] Speaker C: I just don't think it's enough time. Yeah, I just don't think it's enough time to put him there. He's not like a guy that when you think of Russell Westbrook, you just don't think of the six man. I agree with what you're saying.
If this Clippers are struggling, then he can come in and make an instant impact, but he's not guaranteed to go off the bench like some of these other guys were like Crawford and Louis.
[01:00:40] Speaker A: I think for the majority of his career. For now, from this point on, he will. He'll never start again. I don't.
[01:00:47] Speaker C: I mean, but that's not.
[01:00:49] Speaker B: But I can't base this list theoretical.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Thinking that he's going to. If you're watching the games, you see the impact versus other guys on.
[01:00:58] Speaker C: Yeah, but these dudes did it. We're saying what you're thinking Russell Westbrook is going to do for the.
[01:01:03] Speaker A: I'm not thinking what he's going to do. I'm saying what he's doing today.
[01:01:05] Speaker B: Tonight he had first team all defense guy. We don't know he is.
[01:01:10] Speaker C: I think he will be, but I mean more so in the future. You don't know if he's going to have this same production off the bench for the next four years. Guys like Jamal Crawford and Lou will did it for 20.
[01:01:21] Speaker A: When it's on the court, the team is at its best.
And that's shown. That's proven. Whenever that starting lineup is in a hole and he checks in, it's different. There's a whole nother something. The team's flipped. The team's different.
[01:01:40] Speaker B: I think I need to see more time of him off the bench. I'm not saying three years from now he can't be on the list because if he keeps the same production for the next two, three years, he definitely could be top ten. But I think with only 98 games worth when some of these guys played an entire career's worth off the bench, then I just can't put him in the top ten yet.
Especially four. Not yet.
[01:02:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. Number four. I have Andre Igadala. Iggy was like a huge piece off the bench on a championship team. So huge that he won a Finals MVP. I think that season alone can propel him.
He is absolutely insane. That year he guarded mean they literally went without a center just so that they could make sure that Andre Igadala could start. That's how valuable he was to that team.
That may be like the most valuable single season that a six man has ever had, to be honest. Just because of how impactful he was in that playoff run, especially once they got deep into it. And that alone is enough for me to put Andre Igadal at four. I don't think any other six man in NBA history has been like, the reason their team won a final.
[01:02:53] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, that's why I had iggy earlier just a couple spots behind. But a four is where I have Kevin McHale he has those championship experience. What'd you say? Two rings coming off the bench? Is that what you said? And three finals appearances. He was incredible coming off the bench. Not really the longest career. He did play a decent chunk, but one of the greatest celtics of all time. Again played in a time where, oh, no, he's actually a two time six man of the year. Never. Fine. I was going to say the award, Dignis, but two time six man of the year. So he has the awards to back it up. Six time all defensive team, seven time all star and a three time champ. And he's on the 75th team where he played a bunch of time off the bench. So that speaks to how impressive he was throughout his career.
And he started because Cedric Maxwell got an injury and it was off from there. So shout out Kevin McHale. He was a beast.
[01:03:43] Speaker A: Okay, number three, this is where I have Bill Walton.
Are we on three?
[01:03:47] Speaker B: Right?
[01:03:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:03:48] Speaker A: Okay, number three, this is where I have Bill Walton. Like I was saying, MVP. I don't know if he won six man of the year, but I do know that he was able to completely transform his know, there's not been a lot of guys that were MVP level guys and number ones on their teams that have been able to go to being a six man and be able to win a championship while doing it, but he was able to do that and he was able to stick around and be on a lot of other good teams like the Clippers.
He was a pretty impactful part of their team. They weren't like anything half decent, but it was just somewhere for him to be. Somewhere for him to come off the bench.
[01:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:04:27] Speaker C: At number three, I have Manu Ginobili, one of your all time great six men, especially in the sense of that he was right there with the spurs in the dynasty, kind of that they built in the. He kind of helped set that standard for spurs basketball. He was one of the faces of that with Tony Parker and Tim Duncan.
Yeah, he was a beast. He was so good, in fact, that he was a two time all star while he was coming off the bench and a four time NBA champ. Having four rings helps a lot. He was two time all NBA as well. Manu Giannobi was an absolute unit, especially in his early days. He was a lot better scoring wise. And then in the later days kind of focused on his defense. I know everybody remembers the big block against James Harden. He kind of focused on defense, really learned to be a log down defender and was a great playmaker as well, especially for someone that was playing the two.
[01:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Three is where I have Lemon Pepper. Lou Williams. One of the guys that you think of when you hear the term six man of the year is Lou Williams, one of only two men with three six man of the year awards.
Again, a model of consistency when it comes to the coming off the bench. His first two years, 1.94.2. His last year, 6.3. But everything in between was double digits, especially coming off the bench. He has one, two, three a whole lot of seasons, starting zero games and winning six man of the year. So when you think of a six man, I think of a few guys. And Lemon Pepper. Lou is definitely one of those guys. He was getting 20 points a game off the bench, so can't hate on that.
[01:06:03] Speaker A: Number two, I have John Havochek, the guy that the six man award is currently named after.
I forgot which one of the two of you guys said that he played however many years off the bench. But accomplishment wise, points wise, he's right up there with Ginobly, who I haven't won.
Y'all have talked a lot about him earlier.
[01:06:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Number two, I have Kevin McHale. I know both of y'all have already gotten past him, but I kind of disagree with Nick in the sense of I don't think of Kevin McHale as a six man. I think of Kevin McHale as a six man. I think he did win the majority of his rings coming off the inch. I really think that he is right there with Jamal Crawford as being spoiler.
[01:06:47] Speaker B: That's my number one.
[01:06:48] Speaker C: But, yeah, I think he's right there with Jamal Crawford. They could really be one, a, one b. Kevin McHale did everything, man. He could score, he could rebound, and he was a six time all defender, seven time all star as well. He was a serious, serious piece on championship teams. Kind of just like how Hondo was on those really early celtic teams. That's kind of the recipe they used to help Kevin McHale and utilize him in a championship role.
[01:07:14] Speaker B: Amen.
My number two is where I have Monte Ginobly, my journalism teacher's favorite player of all time. He cried in class when he retired, so I thought that was really cool. But a Hall of Famer. And there might not be a Spurs dynasty without the presence of Manu Ginobli, a two time all star, four time NBA champion, two time all NBA player, and a one time six man of the year in 2007.
He's another one of the guys I think of.
When you think of a six man of the year, it's Manu Ginobli, he didn't even play his first three years in the league. He was in Italy. He comes in the league and he's just hooping right off the bat. A full time career with a full head of hair. Yeah, full head of hair. He was rocking that big old haircut when he was young. He's a bald man now, but he transitioned from big hair to swatting bats in the end of his career. But nonetheless, Manu is one of the greatest six men ever, and there's not really much you can say about it.
[01:08:11] Speaker A: Okay, number one, I have mono. Ginobli.
Just reason being he accomplished the most off the bench. Not as a six man, but he's the greatest player to ever come off of the bench. Not like, status wise, he's the greatest player to come off of the bench. As in he won.
[01:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:08:29] Speaker C: I can't think of a better basketball player to come off the bench. No, I'm being serious. Skill wise, probably like the best to.
[01:08:37] Speaker B: Have, like a prominent.
[01:08:38] Speaker C: If Ginobili would have started his whole career, you would have put up crazy numbers.
[01:08:42] Speaker A: Probably. And being able to go to all star games as a six man, be on all NBA teams as a six.
[01:08:49] Speaker C: Man, it's unheard of.
[01:08:52] Speaker A: And then have all the rings on top of that. And he was a first ballot hall of Famer, so I don't know if many of these guys were first ballot, the guys that are retired, but, yeah.
[01:09:04] Speaker C: All right, number one, I said it a second ago. I have Jamal Crawford. When I think of the term six man, I think of a microwave off the know Nick talked about with Westbrook, like, he can help the offense out. I think Jamal Crawford was the best six man in terms of being able to help the offense out. He has the accolades. He just was a six man. He could go to any team in the league and make an impact, and not a lot of other players can do that. And the way he did that was just providing his scoring ability off the bench. He's one of the most skilled hoopers of all time. He had the handle. I think he's the top three ball handler of all time behind Kyrie and Alan Iverson and his creativity and the way that he was able to create shots for himself and even for know, we haven't seen a lot of that from many other people in NBA history. So for that being said, I think Jamal Crawford personifies what it is to be a six man. That's why I have him at number one.
[01:10:02] Speaker B: Number one, I also have the guy, I think of as a six man of the year or as the pinnacle of six men is Jay crossover Jamal Crawford. Outside of Lou Williams, the only man to win a 6th man of the year three times and earlier in his career, he started a lot of games. Started 80 out of 80 games when he was a New York knick in 2007. But when you look across and you look down, his numbers as a bench player look comparable, if not better, to the years where he started, especially in 2013 as a clipper. 18 a game was incredible off the bench. Won a 6th man of the year in that role. He was extremely good in Atlanta. He was great in Chicago. Everywhere he went, he was able to get buckets. Jamal Crawford was the pinnacle of a microwave. He kind of outshadowed Dirk nowitzky in his final game when he had like that 60 pointer out of nowhere against the Mavericks. So Jamal Crawford can get it done, no matter how old he was, no matter if he was starting or not. He is the pinnacle of six men of the year in my eyes.
And that is the end of our list. That was a pretty long episode, a whole lot of debating, and my breath is kind of. I'm wiped right now. I'm tired.
So that's all we have for you guys this week. Thank you for tuning in to WVUA 90.7 FM and the full core press podcast to stay up to date. Follow us on Instagram at FTP podcast underscore UA. See you all next week.
[01:11:31] Speaker C: Peace.
[01:11:39] Speaker A: UAFM, Tuscaloosa.
